Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?

Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?

Is it ever OK to joke about mental illness or suicide? In today’s Not Crazy podcast, Gabe and Lisa welcome Frank King, a comedian who’s turned his strifes with major feeling and suicidal think into comedic material.

What do you think? Is joking about suicide too heavy? Or is humor a good coping mechanism? Join us for an in-depth discussion on gallows humor.

( Transcript Available Below )

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Guest Information for’ Frank King — Joking and Suicide’ Podcast Episode


Frank King, Suicide Prevention speaker and Trainer was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years.

Depression and suicide run in his family. He’s thought about killing himself more hours than he can count. He’s engaged a lifetime battle with Major Depressive Disorder and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long gloom journey of the feeling into five TEDx Talks and sharing his lifesaving penetrations on Mental Health Awareness with associations, firms, and colleges.

A Motivational Public Speaker who consumes his life tasks to start the conversation affording parties permission to give voice to their feelings and knows bordering recession and suicide.

And doing it by coming out, as it were, and stand in his truth, and doing it with humor.

He believes that where there is humor there is hope, where there is laugh there is life , none dies chuckling. The title being, at the best time, with the right information, can save a life.

About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

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Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and loudspeaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the favourite notebook, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observances, available from Amazon; signed fakes are likewise available directly from Gabe Howard . To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

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Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her part life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international hasten; and dictates 12 duets of shoes online, picks the best one, and casts the other 11 back.

Computer Generated Transcript for” Frank King- Joking and Suicide” Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer made and therefore may contain mistakes and grammar lapses. Thank you.

Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.

Gabe: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me, as always, is Lisa. Lisa, do you have a new beginning this week?

Lisa: Oh, you totally ruined my thing. I was gonna do hi, I’m Lisa, but like in a charming voice.

Gabe: You speculate abusing like a different inflection, but the exact same commands is a new introduction for you?

Lisa: Yes, I’m going to do different inflections.

Gabe: That’s terrible.

Lisa: I’ve been thinking about it for a full seven days.

Gabe: It’s terrible. You know, I am very happy that you’re here and I’m very happy that the show is about comedy. We are going to talk about is comedy and being funny surrounding mental health issues OK? Well, we kind of think it is. But Lisa, today we have a guest.

Lisa: Yes. Special guests, Frank King, are living with major dip and suffers from suicidal ideation, and he describes himself as a fighter in his lifelong battle with mental illness. And before we get started, we are going to talk about suicide. And Frank is a comedian. So it’s going to come up pretty quick. So be prepared for that.

Gabe: And there’s your initiation alerting, tribes, and after we’re done talking to Frank. Lisa and I will be back to tell you our thoughts, you know, behind his back.

Lisa: And recorded, so not really behind his back. He continued to listen to it.

Gabe: I’m glad you told me that, because

Lisa: You forgot?

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, that time yeah.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: I often forget that people are listening

Lisa: Certainly?

Gabe: No. No, never.

Gabe: And we’re just going to onslaught him a entire bunch. We’re gonna be like, that’s offensive. That’s awful. That’s terrible. People feel this way. And would you joke about murder? The answer, of course, is that people do joke about murder. People joke about all kinds of things. But I feel like we should let Frank defend himself. Frank, welcome to the show.

Frank: Thanks, Gabe. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Lisa: Oh, expressed appreciation for being here.

Gabe: Are you glad you said yes?

Frank: Huh, do you want me to be honest or kind?

Lisa: Too soon to say.

Frank: No, I’m delighted to be here. Glad we could find a time to do this, although I haven’t got another booking till May 2021, so I got plenty of time.

Gabe: COVID has slow-paced us all down. Frank, you’re a mental health comedian. That’s literally how you describe yourself. Frank King, the mental health comedian. Why? Can you tell us about that?

Frank: Yeah, I told my first joke in fourth grade and the babies chuckled and I told my mama I’m gonna be a comedian. She said, because education is a big deal in our clas. Well, son, you are gonna go to college and get a degree. Now, after college, you can be, I don’t know a goat herder if you choose. But you, my son, are going to be a goat herder with a degree. So I went to school in Chapel Hill. I got two magnitudes. One in political science, one in industrial relations.

Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that was the thing.

Frank: I didn’t either.

Gabe: Can you get a job in that or did you have to fall back on humor?

Frank: No. UNC Chapel Hill has a marvelous placements centre. I interviewed literally 77 seasons. No second interviews , no errand offers. So they’re looking at me imagining this guy’s a jester. And they were correct. So most people give up a good job to do comedy. But I was functionally unemployable. So my girlfriend, high school girlfriend and college, her father-god worked for an insurance company and he bickered me a task as a marketing rep of an insurance company in Raleigh. And then we moved to San Diego. I should have never married my first partner. I knew going down the aisle it was not going to work. I exactly didn’t have the testicular fortitude to back out. We had nothing in common, virtually. And you know what they say, opposites lure. She was pregnant. I wasn’t. So, we got married and, in La Jolla, California, which is a suburb of San Diego, although La Jolla would tell you that San Diego is actually a suburb of La Jolla, the Comedy Store had a branch there, the world famed Comedy Store on Sunset.

Gabe: Yeah. Very cool.

Frank: And so I

Lisa: Yeah, I watched it when I was a kid.

Frank: And so I did what I tell comedians or intended to be comics to do. Go and sit through open mic light twice. See how bad everybody is, 75% of them. And that will give you the mettle. I went down, sat through two nights of it and sure as shooting, 75, 80 percent were frightful. And I’m thinking I’m that funny really walking around. And so the third night I travelled, I got up. I did my five minutes. It was all about moving from North Carolina to California because back then that was quite a bit of culture shock. The joke I retain is I’d never seen guacamole. I’ve never actually find an avocado growing up in North Carolina. So I pick up a microchip and I’m headed for the bowl and I stop. I’m linger over the bowl, staring at the guacamole. You know what guacamole looks like. The hostess comes running over. Frank, I’ll bet you don’t know what that is. You’re not from California. That is what we call guacamole. And it’s good. And I said, yes, I gambling it was good the first time somebody ate it. And in my pate that night, it’s only happened a couple of hours in my life. I had the meditate unbidden. I’m home on stage

Lisa: Aww.

Frank: There. And then my second thought was I would do this for a living. I has got no idea how because I had no idea how difficult it is to make a living doing standup comedy. Had I known, I probably would not have tried.

Gabe: Frank, I adore that legend and that, of course, rebuttals the second part, how you became a comedian, but why mental health issues? Why a mental health comedian?

Frank: Well, we’ll get there.

Gabe: Get there faster, Frank.

Lisa: Don’t, don’t.

Gabe: That’s what I’m telling you.

Frank: I picture, okay.

Lisa: Don’t, Gabe. It’s just like with you, if you try to conclude him go faster, he’ll go slower. Precisely recall Zen.

Frank: Yeah,

Lisa: Be chill.

Frank: Yeah.

Lisa: See all these times, that’s why I let you talk, because otherwise it takes longer.

Gabe: That’s so sweet.

Frank: I did amateur light for about a year, and then I won a rivalry in San Diego. Said to my girlfriend , now my bride of 32 years.

Lisa: Oh.

Frank: Look, I’m going on the road to do standup comedy. I had 10 weeks booked, which I thought was forever. You want to come along? And she said inexplicably, yes. So we settled everything into storage that we couldn’t are suitable for my minuscule little Dodge Colt.

Gabe: Wow.

Frank: No air conditioner. And we thumped the road for 2,629 lights in a row. Nonstop, beer disallow, pool hall, honky tonk, comedy society. And she just came along for the ride. We had no home , no residence. No, we were, you know.

Gabe: Now, generally speaking, when people are homeless, I remember perhaps they’re not so good at what they’re doing. But?

Lisa: It’s apparently a different type of industry.

Frank: And it was a great time of “peoples lives”. I mean, back then they put you up in a humor condo, three bedrooms. So I worked with and wasted time, weeks at a time in condos with Dennis Miller and Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell and Dana Carvey and Adam Sandler. Back when they were just comics. So we go that brandish for about seven years. And then I got a job in radio in Raleigh, North Carolina, my old-fashioned hometown, and I took a number one morning show. I drove it to number six in 18 months. A friend of mine said you didn’t just drive it into the ground. You drove it into Middle Earth. So I did.

Lisa: Well, but in absolute value, that’s a, that’s a big up.

Gabe: I convey, six is a bigger number than one, congratulations.

Lisa: There “theres going”. Yeah.

Frank: So then my boss at the time, we’re still friends, said to me, well, you go back on the road do stand up. Well, standup was going away. More guilds are closing than opening. So I’ve always been very clean. Which cost me in the one nighter beer disallow situations. But affiliate the National Speaker Association, got to the rubber chicken circuit and razz that and made good money time doing HR friendly corporate clean-living humor until 2007 and a half basically. And then the market, you know, the speaking marketplace quitted out 80% essentially overnight. And my spouse and I lost everything we worked for for twenty five years in a Period 7 insolvency. And that’s when I found out what the barrel of my gun savours like. Spoiler alert. I didn’t pull the trigger. I tell that story and a friend of mine came up subsequentlies, who never heard me say that before. And he goes, Hey, lover, how come you didn’t pull the trigger? I disappear, Hey, soldier, could “youre trying to” chime a little less thwarted? So. And if you want to know why I didn’t pull the trigger, it’s in my first TED talk.

Gabe: I want, sincerely, we. This is the crux of the show, right? That’s like actually ponderous. Like when you said it, I was like, oh, my God, “whats being” I do to save, Frank? You already told me that it was.

Lisa: Yeah, I was also thinking whoa whoa, did not see that coming. All right.

Gabe: Right. But you said it funny. I entail, there’s no other way to give it. That was a joke about something certainly, really serious. And I imagine that there’s a stupor appreciate there. There’s a like that was unexpected.

Frank: Yeah, and it is there on purpose.

Gabe: Do you get shit for that? I mean, I has now read the words. I was trying to listen to your podcast. We were all having a good time. And then Frank made a joke about suicide that I wasn’t expecting. How dare you? And on one mitt, I want to agree with them, like, oh, like that would be unexpected. But on the other hand, I revalue humor. I adopt humor. It is healthy. How do you answer the person or persons that tell you this?

Lisa: Well, first, I want to hear how he decided to talk about this, because this friend comes up to him and he tells the story. Is that because that friend thought it was hilarious and you were like, oh, this is definitely where the money is? I’m gonna go this direction. I necessitate, how did that happen?

Frank: Well, I had a mental health act at that point when he actually was indicated that. So I time, as many comics do,

Lisa: Ok.

Frank: Added to that because everybody roared. The actual original pipeline was bankruptcy, lost everything. And I had an itch on the ceiling of my speak I was only able to scratch with the breast slope on my nickel plated. 38, which parties experienced a little graphic. So I,

Gabe: Yeah.

Lisa: Well.

Frank: I was put forward by the what the barrel of my shoot appetites like. It’s faster. And what I do is I do it on purpose for two reasons. One, anybody in the gathering who has a mental illness who hears me say, I can tell you what the barrel of my artillery flavors like, you can see them lean forward because all of a sudden, they realize that I get onto. And it outrages the neuro ordinary beings, which is what I’m after, into paying better attention, because that’s why I’m there, is to let the mentally ill people know that they’re not alone and help the neurotypical people decipher how someone can be so depressed that they would take their own life. And so, but then again, you notice I talk about taste of the barrel of my handgun and then I extend, spoiler alarm, didn’t pull the trigger. So you get the shock and then you get the joke, even though it is simply gets a uneasy shriek, that strand, you know. Huh. And then the big-hearted payoff is friend of mine been put forward. Why didn’t you pull the trigger? Could you. Yeah. So it is erected that nature on purpose. The appall appreciate. And then the first tiny laugh. Should we be laughing at the fact you leant a shoot in his opening? And then the big-hearted shriek with the person who came up afterwards and said, you know, and I said try to sound a little less disappointed.

Frank: So but yeah, it’s, um, except for the fact that I was establish some sorrow about the original route, about the irritation on the roof of my lip. Nobody’s ever complaints about the. I don’t know whether they I’ve outraged him into convulsion. They can’t. I’d like to say something, but I can’t. And there’s a comedy principle there in that if you give them something very serious like the artillery in the mouth and you follow it with something entertaining, then they’re much more ready and able to handle the next patch of serious information that you give them, regardless of what it is. So there’s a tempo to and then the reason, you are aware, everything is where it is in that bit and in the in my communication. What happened was I would do standup comedy and I’d always wanted to make a living and a difference because when I went to work in insurance, I ensure all the old school motivational people, Zig Ziglar and like that. I envisioned, soldier, I could do that if I precisely had something to teach somebody. Well, when I came so close, and it runs in my family. My grandmother died by suicide.

Frank: My mother obtained her. My great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I discovered her. I was four years old, I screamed for dates. I visualized, I speculate I can maybe talk about it. And then I bought a work by the status of women named Judy Carter called The Message of You: Turning Your Life into a Money Making Speaking Career. And I is entered into it reviewing, I’ve got nothing. And Judy strolls you through find your middle tale and what you should be talking about. And about halfway through, I meditated I do have something to talk about. So I use Judy’s diary to design my first TED talk. I exercised a volume called Talk Like TED to refine it. And then I handed it and I came out to the world at 52 as somebody who’s depressed and suicidal. My wife didn’t know my family, your best friend , no one knew. Now to Gabe’s part, the only thing I’ve ever gotten grief for about that TEDx talk was that I didn’t know that the most appropriate lingo around suicide was die by suicide, ended a suicide, in that I said committed suicide. And it actually expense me a gig. They received that, and I said, well, look at the next three.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: But they didn’t want to hire me because I exploited the period committed suicide.

Gabe: We talk about this a lot. Everywhere I lead. I used to be the legion of a podcast called A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast and all of our mail. OK. I should back off that a bit. Not all of our mail but, but probably 75% of our mail, was your speech is offensive. It should be called a person living with bipolar, a person living with schizophrenia and a portable digital register that you can listen to at your holiday. And I thought that’s just so inefficient. But what really struck me about this word debate is, for the record, I agree that we should say completed suicide or attempted suicide. I don’t like the expression commit because it makes it seem. I agree with that alteration. But so what? You probably made in accordance with the think behind it as well. And you merely didn’t know at the time. We’re not educating people if “were starting”, you are aware, shelling people each time they make a mistake. I mean, exactly heaven forbid.

Frank: Well, here’s the distribute. I said there is no bigger commitment than blowing your brains out. Two, there’s an old joke about breakfast, bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The animal was committed. Still didn’t get the gig. But I felt better.

Gabe: I understand. Look, I’m not saying that there’s not an iota of truth in the way we talk to each other and the direction that we speak to one another and the words that we choose to use. It’s one of the reasons that you’re probably a comedian because, you know, that lingo is likely to be operated in a way that makes people pay closer attention.

Frank: Oh, yeah.

Gabe: Or a path that makes people giggle or that, you know, ruffles people’s stripes. We’re all aware of this. But I still have to point out time and time again, if we leant as much effort into getting parties with serious mental illness promotion as we do in deciding how to discuss parties with serious mental illness, I believe the world would be a better place. I had to take a lot of shit about that, Frank.

Frank: Yeah. My radio co-host, had an expression, is that the hill you want to die on? And no, that’s not the hill I want to die. That’s not where I was necessary to waste my endeavour. I’ll give proper conversation. But I’m not you know, right before I came on with you guys, I was on a dental podcast because dentists have a high rate and several have died recently, high profile. And the gentleman I spoke to said is suicide. And I just let it go. I wasn’t going to institution him. I symbolize, if I realise him later, I’d say, hey, follower, just a memorandum, you are aware, just for your own edification and to avoid trouble in the future. And I have done that with other parties. You know, people say something. I said, ogle, you are aware, when you figure someone has mental illness, you need to avoid this or that. It is not always expression so much as it is. You know, I select joy.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: Ok, well, one of the chaps who’s involved in our work is very much a positive motivational loudspeaker sort of fellow. And he recalls, he said something about the cognitive state, that positive cognitive state and preferring positive believes is the antidote to sadnes. And I said, you have to be very careful about that because there are those of us who are organically predisposed. And I am the most positive person who’s suicidal you’ll probably ever gratify. I have a great attitude. You know, I have chronic suicidal ideation so I could blow my mentalities out tomorrow. But, you know, it’s not such matters of attitude.

Lisa: Positive imagine exclusively makes you so far.

Frank: Yeah, it’s like saying to a mother of a child who has a problem depression and reviews of suicide to hire a tutor. A life coach. It’s like , no. And the pushback I get the most on, Gabe, is somebody will encounter me. How can you joke about mental illness and suicide?

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: An overarching question, an in the macro question. How are you able joke about recession and thinks of suicide? I say, so here’s the consider. In comedy, perhaps you know this, you can joke about any group to which you belong.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I always hate it when people tell me how to talk about myself

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: Or when people tell me how to react to my own trauma or my own experiences, like you can’t talk about your life that lane. What I

Frank: What?

Gabe: I precisely. Listen, having mental illness. I live with bipolar disorder. And it is rough and it is tough. And society is constantly on top of me telling me what to do, how to behave, how to act. You know, this treatment is good. This medicine is bad. Anti psychiatry, pro psychiatry, med simulate. Precisely everywhere, just like everybody has an opinion about my life. And then parties start having sentiments of how I’m supposed to think and discuss “peoples lives”. It’s bad enough you all have minds on everything else I do. But now you’re trying to control how I think about my own experiences and explain them to others. Now , now I want to fight.

Lisa: Well, they think they’re helping.

Gabe: I know they think they’re helping, but they’re not.

Frank: The name your previous podcast was something of a bipolar? It was a?

Gabe: A bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast.

Frank: Yes, I thought it was so three chaps walking into a bar.

Gabe: Yeah, we stole it from three people in a pizza place

Frank: Yeah. Exactly.

Lisa: Well, the word of this one is Not Crazy, so if the question at the beginning of the bout is, is it OK to joke about mental illness? I think we’ve already answered it with the title.

Frank: Yes.

Gabe: Yeah, we get pushback on the claim. People suck.

Lisa: I know.

Frank: So do I. I get. I just got off the podcast with the dentists, and I said, ogle, before I leave, let me give you my phone number, my cell phone number, and I give it to him twice, and I say introduced it in the reveal tones. And here’s the distribute. The reason I do that, I do it every keynote that I do. I render my cell phone number.

Lisa: Certainly?

Frank: Yep.

Lisa: Ok.

Frank: I say, glance, if you’re suicidal, call the suicide prevention lifeline or verse HELP to 741741. If you’re just having a really bad day, call a crazy person like me. Because we’re not going to judge. We’re just going to listen.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: As a friend of mine says, co-sign on your B.S. and I’ve gotten pushback on you shouldn’t help word crazy. So, here’s the thing. I’m taking it back.

Gabe: Yes.

Frank: As homosexual parties took back the period fag and performed it not a pejorative. I’m taking crazy back because I own it. I’ve paid off it. It’s my word if I want to use it. And so, yeah, that does my dander up. It’s, you know.

Gabe: Here, here’s the thing about comedy that I enjoy so much. And I agree with you and Lisa and I talk about this all the time, for some reason, we’re so hung up on texts that we’re not at all hung up on context.

Frank: No.

Gabe: Do you know how many grisly things have happened to me with the right terms being used? Mr. Howard, I’m sorry. I’m going to have to fire you from your work because you’re a person lives with mental illness

Lisa: But we’ve talked about why that is.

Gabe: Why?

Lisa: Because it’s easier. Do you know how much trouble and effort it would be to end homelessness or add an adequate mental health safety net or suicide prevention programs? Those are hard and they’re expensive. Telling people to start talking in a different way is much, much easier and free.

Gabe: And you can do it on Facebook.

Lisa: Yeah, that helps, more. You don’t have to leave your house.

Frank: And I get together once a few months, sometimes more, on a Monday with my crazy slapstick klatch, anywhere from two to six of us who are all crazy. All have a mental illness of one stripe or another. And we get together for an hour. We take off our play face and we are only ourselves and say things that would. One morning person comes and departs, you are aware, a person jump-start off a six legend house downtown. I get, six legends? Not a chance in blaze. You could live six legends. Only leave you a quadriplegic. I’m going at least 10.

Lisa: Good thinking.

Frank: And there’s somebody at the table behind me is like, did you precisely? I get, it’s a math question. You know, you just have to reach terminal velocity. Give me a destroy. But that’s how you are aware. Somebody said something about suicide. And I said, seem, if you going to die by suicide, don’t jump off a aqueduct and land on some poor civilian’s auto and break their lives forever. Get a bombard vest, find some jackass and wrap your arms around him and then pull the trigger. Do, you are aware, make the world a better place.

Lisa: That’s actually super good advice.

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: That is abominable advice and Not Crazy, is not is not forgive assassinate in any way.

Lisa: I really can’t believe. I have invested a lot of term thinking about suicide. I have never thought of that.

Gabe: Listen, what we’re talking about is called gallows feeling, it’s dark humor. Now, I am a big fan of it. In my darkest times, the things that, honest to God, saved my life were the person or persons that looked at me and told me jokes like we just talked about here. But not everyone likes them and not everybody understands them.

Frank: No.

Gabe: I entail, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about mental illness, mental health issues or. You know, their own families. OK, here’s what this reminded everyone. My dad come in a frightful coincidence. I make, he had to be life flighted like it was really serious. We would like to call. We had to get in the car. We has drive 12 hours because we live in Ohio. He lives in Tennessee. And we go there. And my dad is 70 years old and he’s listen, he’s drum to shit. And the nurse needed him to sign a consent form. And, of course, you know, my daddy, he’s on sedatives. He’s scared. He’s in the hospital. Did I mention he was, you know, like, certainly physically messed up from industrial accidents? And he’s demonstrating the nanny perturb. He’s like, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. I don’t want to. And I said, you know, Dad, you need to sign that. And he goes, I don’t want to.

Gabe: And I seemed my dad in the eyes and I said, if you don’t signed that, I’m going to beat you up. And there was this awkward moment of silence for like a second. And my papa exactly starts laughter. He precisely starts cracking up. He’s roaring so hard that he’s like, don’t. Don’t constitute me laugh. It hurts. It hurts. And he grabs the clipboard and he ratifies it. Now, I’ve told that narration, I don’t know, a thousand times and about 50% of the time beings breath like, oh, my God, this sounds like a really serious emergency. Your dad had to be life flighted. Why would you say that to him? What various kinds of a frightful, horrendous son are you? Look, I know my pa. This is how we talk to each other. It relieves the mood. My dad thought it was funny. And listen, we didn’t have a lot to laugh at, so we had to laugh at the only thing that was in the chamber, which was the fact that my dad came in industrial accidents that approximately killed him and had to be life flighted and his son had to drive 12 hours to see him. I think it’s the same way with mental illness. I think that’s what we need to laugh at. I think if we’re not laughing, we’re crying.

Lisa: Humor is a way to deal with dark topics that are embarrassing, it’s a way to see you feel better about things that are sucky.

Gabe: But not everybody believes that. How do you compensate that? Because in any office, especially your rooms, Frank, they’re big offices, there’s five hundred a thousand people in those offices. And better than average quirkies are, there’s a couple of hundred people that think that you’re a jackass that’s making fun of mentally ill beings and you’re doing a great disservice.

Frank: Yeah, well, you are aware, that’s the difference between being a speaker and a comedian. As a comedian, I’m carefully balanced. You’ve got to know your audience.

Lisa: Well, that’s really the key. Knowing your gathering.

Frank: Yeah.

Lisa: It eliminates this entire discussion.

Gabe: Yeah, but you’re hired at corporate incidents. The public doesn’t elect themselves. This stimulates it a little more difficult. Right, Frank? I represent, if you’re.

Lisa: Well , no, because he doesn’t actually need to please the audience, he precisely needs to please the people who hired him.

Gabe: Now, come on, that that’s.

Lisa: Those two things will probably generally go together, but not always.

Gabe: We’re not playing lawyer missile now, Lisa.

Lisa: I’m just saying.

Frank: Yeah, the I’ve got a friend is a funeral director, mortician, so is his dad, and they have the darkest sense of humor. I go into a motivational speech for the Selected Independent Funeral Homes. They announce me up and they said.

Lisa: This is a good joke. I can tell. It’s going to be a good, good setup.

Gabe: Well, this isn’t a joke, it’s a story, right?

Frank: True story.

Gabe: It’s a true story.

Lisa: It’s going to be funny in the end, though, I can tell.

Gabe: Everything Frank says is funny.

Frank: A month ahead of time they call me. What do you call your motivational discussion for morticians? And I was kidding. I said I call it Thinking Inside the Box. And they liked it so much. I had to have my first slip is, you are aware, Thinking Inside the Box. The lad and papa are frantic. And then his pa is on a ship. I’m doing 10 daylights on a 115 period nature cruise. And I don’t know if you guys know this, but the longer the cruise, the older the passengers.

Gabe: Truly?

Lisa: Well, that originates appreciation. They have the time.

Gabe: I predict. Yeah, they don’t have responsibilities. Yeah, that represents sense.

Frank: Yeah. One hundred fifteen days, we’re talking age-old people and their parents. Each night, same thing for dessert: oxygen. Yeah. Did a show in an 800 bench theater, it was bundled. I call my wife, honey, there was so much white hair in that theater, it looked like a Q-tip convention. So in my deed I have this history about how every industry has a favorite joke. And I tell one about the grain industry. There’s one about my favorite actually is ophthalmologists and optometrists. Their favorite joke is this is my impression of an ophthalmologist or an optometrist making love. How’s that? How about now? Better or worse? One or two? Yeah. And I said, guys like if you’ve never frayed glass, ask soul because that’s funny.

Lisa: Well, yeah, I was going to say exclusively people who wear glasses are gonna get that.

Frank: Well, then there’s a mortician joke and the mortician joke is what’s the most difficult thing about being a mortician? And it’s trying to look terrible at a $35,000 funeral. So I tell the joke

Lisa: That’s not a joke, though. That’s real.

Frank: It’s true, but I tell the joke and I say

Gabe: Well, but it is funny.

Frank: It is funny, and the public shrieks. And I say is anybody here in the public, a mortician, retired or active duty? And a person on the balcony develop his hand. I vanish, what’s a mortician do on a 115 day macrocosm sail? He stands up, billows his arm across a horde and goes inventory. And it kills.

Gabe: Oh.

Frank: And I’ve been, and it’s been killing ever since. And it is capable of being, Gabe, because he extradites the punch line.

Lisa: It’s entirely because he hands it.

Frank: Yeah, exactly.

Lisa: Otherwise, it’s not funny. Otherwise, it’s just mean.

Frank: Yes, comedy, there’s an arts and a science. Jesters should ever be shooting up , not down.

Lisa: Exactly. Yes.

Frank: So if I was neurotypical, I couldn’t make any of the jokes I make about dip and suicide because I’d be shooting down.

Gabe: Right. You’d be making fun of beings below you on that. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, making fun of a oppressed radical is not funny. It’s just piling on to the problems that are already there.

Frank: It’s like, ladies should ever acquire in a joke. And that’s why gentlemen shouldn’t make fun of, or minorities. It’s difficult being a white comedian. Six paw towering, dark-brown haired grey chap because I.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you poor dear.

Gabe: We’re sorry, Frank. At least God gave you a mental illness so you had something to talk about.

Frank: Yeah, I’m well aware of being born a white-hot male, heterosexual Protestant in the US gives you a huge advantage. But frankly, if you have born that road in a relatively stable family and you haven’t supplanted at something, you’re doing it wrong.

Lisa: Yeah.

Gabe: Yeah.

Frank: Yeah, so, if you are gay or black or Mexican, you can joke about all those. Comedy is tragedy plus time or impediment plus occasion. So, you are aware, because minorities have more difficulty. If you’re a minority, you can joke about all minorities. If you’re a white chap , not so much. So there are comedy rules and regulations that bleed over into my speaking. I “ve been trying to” coach my speaking coaching students this. There should not be a word in there that doesn’t serve a purpose, including moving the narrative forward. I convey, you got to be very careful how you word things, because in radio, they say it’s not what you told. It’s not what they heard. It’s what they thought they heard. And nowadays it’s all filtered, more so, I repute, than in the past because of the separation. You know, the right and the left and the P.C. and the preferred pronouns. And I was on campus, Gabe, at University of Montana, Billings, two nice young men “re driving me” around to radio stations. And one of them said, you know, Frank, comics have a tough time on campus nowadays because people get offended. Do you worry about people getting offended? I said, well, if I was a comedian, I’d be worried. However, I’m here on campus to save lives. So my thinking is. And then there’s an F and an’ em. F’ em.

Lisa: Hmm.

Frank: I don’t care whose toes I tread on if it necessitates I’m saving people.

Gabe: Exactly. It’s always to your point about everybody being offended. If beings are upset, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. And again, I want to be very, very clear. There are offensive statements

Frank: Oh, yeah.

Gabe: That go too far. But if people are sitting around discussing what you said and they’re passionate about what you said and they agree intensely with what you told, they’re applying their critical reviewing abilities to what you said and determining if they like it or abhor it, agree with it, don’t agree with it. And I think that there’s capability in that. If after I leave a whole bunch of parties come together and discuss all that is I said, I think that a lot more parties will be helped than if everybody’s like, well, he didn’t do anything. I want, literally simply it sucks to not be remembered. Don’t get me wrong. I want to be remembered for good things, Frank.

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: But I want to be remembered.

Lisa: Well, but it’s interesting what you said there, that there are some things that go too far. But isn’t that your basi assertion, that depending on your gathering, there’s not? That here i am, in fact , good-for-nothing that “re going too” far?

Frank: Well, there’s too soon.

Lisa: Ok, too soon.

Frank: Yeah.

Lisa: All claim. Not exactly the same.

Frank: But yeah, I imagine Gabe’s right. I think if you leave them talking and I have no problem with someone, who comes up subsequentlies and told me to, appear, I have a problem with blank. And so we talk about it. Well, here’s my doctrine. Here’s why I was indicated that. Here’s why I prefer those commands. Now tell me why you find that? What do you find offensive about that? Because I know I can learn things too. I make it’s.

Lisa: Has that happened? Can you think of any? I necessitate, one of these discussions has perhaps led to you altering up a joke with or rethinking something or gaining new info?

Frank: Back in the day during the AIDS crisis, back in the Reagan years, a great deal of comics, male, heterosexual, manufactured jokes about AIDS because it was the homosexual plague. Back then, regardless. When it became affecting heterosexuals, it wasn’t quite as funny, but I told a joke in the punchline involved AIDS and a friend of mine make me aside. He goes, Look, I know you don’t have a want bone in your organization, but I don’t think you understand how devastating this epidemic is among groups and communities. And so, I think if you knew or if I can impress upon you how wrong that joke is, that you wouldn’t do it. And I dropped it immediately from my act once he explained why it was so wrong. So it has happened. It doesn’t happen a great deal. And I’m very careful about, you are aware, getting there.

Lisa: Clearly, you’ve thought it through or you would be using the joke in the first place.

Frank: Yes. Yeah. So I am open to criticism and changing things. Like with committed suicide, I said, OK, that’s the preferred expression. Or live with bipolar. That’s a well-liked usage that’s less offensive to some people, you know. What does it expenditure me to change it?

Lisa: That’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s a good point, what does it cost you?

Frank: Yeah,

Lisa: You to change it?

Frank: But I’m with Gabe, I don’t think that should be our focus.

Lisa: Right. Right.

Frank: And, Lisa. I’m with you on this. That’s easy to do. Solving a homeless trouble or much more difficult.

Gabe: Right. That’s where I am.

Lisa: Do you feel that some of the denunciation you got is, you are aware, when I recognize people who are using incorrect words, et cetera, that you feel like, OK, they don’t know any better, this is your chance to educate. This is your chance to inform. Do you feel that the belief was, hey, if you’re going to broach the topic, you should already is currently under that rank? Like, is that part of the review that people feel like you, of all people, should know better?

Frank: Yeah, I would say so,

Lisa: Would you not get that same extent of analysi if you yourself did not have a mental illness?

Frank: Yeah, exactly. And I have, as Gabe does I’m sure, that late understanding of the. I don’t know, Gabe, if you do this, but I expend a good deal of occasion by myself in soul reflection inside my own top and.

Gabe: Of track I do. Constantly.

Lisa: That’s mental illness.

Frank: Yeah,

Gabe: That’s pretty much the only place I live.

Lisa: Yeah.

Frank: Well, I’m driving one day and I thought to myself, I’m not going to use the term battle depression anymore because clash implies I can win. I cannot acquire. I can hold. Uneasy truce like North and South Korea. I can lose. Kill myself, but I cannot acquire. And I’ve had arguments with parties , no you can be healed. No. No. For me, there is no cure.

Lisa: Right. Only treatment.

Frank: I live with it. I make sort of an aikido coming. Aikido is a martial art where you blend with your person coming at you rather than go up against their power, you blend with the intensity, make their poise. Because depression is a great power and vigour. And so rather than bump up against it, I try to blend with it and move forward with it. You use that intensity to continue to move forward. It’s difficult, but that mindset of rather than, you know, duelling it.

Lisa: We’ll be right back after these messages.

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Lisa: And we’re back talking about whether or not it is OK to joke about mental illness with comedian, Frank King. Frank, I have been wondering, after watching some of your ordinances, where does your slapstick come from?

Frank: I speculate my comedy occasioning, curiosity is simply the flip side of my major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation. I educated a class announced Stand up for Mental Health. You have to have a diagnosis to get in, a diagnosis to teach it. I have to tell you, they were the best students I ever had. Okay, here’s a nighttime one. These are jokes. This is the way it came out of her honcho. Most comics got a whole page, and they have to like redact two thirds of it. She goes I went to see my psychiatrist. I proceed, Camille, what did the analyst say? Well, he asked me if I was chilled? I said yes. He asked if I had any designs of suicide? Yes. He said, do you have a plan? I said, I have five intentions. Five hopes? She goes, Yeah. You want to hear them all or really the ones that are related to you? It’s dark, but there’s not a word in that that doesn’t move the narrative forward. Here’s one. Tosh. She said, My boyfriend said he wanted to break up with me. I said, well, why did he want to do that, Tosh? She goes, because he wishes to other people. I said, What did “youre telling”? I said, I’m bipolar. Give me a hour. Really that’s the way it came out of her principal. And here’s a lot, I can learn you to write standup comedy.

Frank: I could learn you play standup comedy. What I cannot teach you to do is process. So if anybody said, Frank, one pill one time, never be depressed again, never another suicidal studied. The only side effect is you’re not going to process as a comedian. Then keep the pill, I’ll live with the downside to hang onto the upside. That is where my slapstick comes from. And heckler paths, beings extend, how did you think up? I’m on the bus. I was in Cambodia. We are currently in busses to go to the airport to catch a plane to come home. And the woman in front of me, an older woman on a sail. Go figure. I was doing a podcast from my phone in the seat behind her and she goes, hang up the phone. I get, it’s not a phone call, it’s a podcast, I’m working. Hang up, eh. So I went back another row, remained my expres down. Well, it didn’t please her at all. It didn’t allay her. So we’re getting ready to get off the bus. We all stand up. I’m several steps behind as she turns. She goes “drop dead.” And where this came from, I can’t tell you. I said, made your age, I’m guessing you’re going first. People say, well, how do you think that up? I didn’t think that up. The first time she heard it was first time I listen. I has got no idea. But that’s my, that’s. You don’t have to be mentally ill to write comedy or play slapstick. But it don’t hurt.

Gabe: I ever hear these jokes where people say, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? You know, I’ve read a lot of books that say, you are aware, some of the best comedy comes from traumatic experience.

Frank: Yeah, yeah.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Gabe: And I. Mental illness is a distressing suffer. And I’m not speaking for all the listeners and I’m obviously not speaking for Lisa and Frank, but for me, the humor is all I have some dates. If I can’t laugh at it, I’m going to cry. And that’s why these inappropriate and I’m making the, you are aware, I wish it was a video podcast

Frank: Air quotes.

Gabe: So people could see how often I can make air quotes. If it wasn’t for the feeling that I can find in this, it would be nothing but darkness. And that’s the way I see it.

Frank: One last-place lesson, I had a heart attack, I was in the lumbers half mile up a logging trail with the dogs, I had T-mobile, so I didn’t have cell work. And that never fails to get a laugh and.

Lisa: I used to have T-Mobile, yeah.

Frank: Oh, God.

Gabe: Yeah, it sucked.

Frank: Yes. Suctions out loud. Anyway, I got back to the car. Back to the house, howled at my partner. I’m having a heart attack, dial 911. I listen she came out, got me in an ambulance. I’m at the hospital. Here’s the nice thing about a heart attack. No waiting. Nobody demonstrates a shippa about HIPPA. I’m in the back. And the tragedy plus duration equals comedy. But the longer you do comedy, the shorter the time. I’m doing humor in real time.

Lisa: I could see that.

Frank: That nurse says to me, I’m in great deal of suffering. I’m having a heart attack. She goes, Frank , no paperwork. But I just got one question for you. And I said, I’m married, Honey, but I love the way you think. And she’s trying not to laugh. It’s like, Gabe, if I didn’t have my comedy, what would I have? She goes, No , no , no , no. Your full mention is Frank Marshall King, the third. But what do you like to be called? And I said, through the aching, Big Daddy. And to this day, when I going to go to Oregon Heart& Vascular and somebody sees me from that morning, hey, Big Daddy, how’s it hanging? So, yeah, Gabe, if I didn’t have the humor. I want, if I didn’t have that course of dealing with the pain, whether it’s a heart attack or mental illness or whatever it happens to be, it’s you know, it’s just the way we cope.

Gabe: You know, Frank, clearly I live with bipolar disorder, but I’ve also had physical matters. I was scurried in an ambulance to the emergency room. I had a surgery that kind of didn’t turn out so well. And here I am in the emergency room and Lisa is trying urgently to find me.

Lisa: Well, the woman said to me, are you sure he’s here? I know he’s here. I followed the ambulance. He is here. And then she said something and I said, he is a six hoof three redhead. He can’t be that hard to find.

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: And the nanny said, you’re looking for Gabe?

Lisa: He’s only “re out there” like fifteen inutes.

Frank: Well, he makes an impression.

Lisa: That really happened.

Gabe: I do. I make an impression.

Lisa: He’s not acquire that that floor up. That actually happened.

Gabe: Now, here I am. The rest of that is true. And Lisa is now yelling at me because I’m so popular.

Frank: No, my ex-wife would tell you, inspect, Frank, he had a lot. He got a lot of glitches, but I never went to a party with him which is something we didn’t have a good time.

Lisa: I can see that.

Gabe: Now, the reason I’m telling that story is because everybody affection that fib. I tell that story all the time. People are like, oh, Gabe, it’s so good that you can keep your humor. It was terrifying. And that helped Lisa. And, oh, that’s so beautiful talking about it in that highway. But whenever I do that for mental illness, beings are like, that’s unwarranted stop. And I’m like , no, wait a minute.

Frank: What?

Gabe: Why? What’s the. This is one of those, you know,

Lisa: Because it’s not as scary.

Gabe: Stigmatizing things. You know, “re making fun” of me, roughly dying from a surgery, going wrong and roughly bleeding to death at home. People are like, yeah, he’s tough, but joking about mental illness, about bipolar affective disorder. And beings are like I don’t know that you’re taking it earnestly. And it’s a very scary illness. And I think you might be hurting other beings that suffer from this. And I merely point that out because we want mental illness and physical illness to be treated exactly the same. And I guarantee there’s nobody that heard your story about, you are aware, the big-hearted daddy story

Frank: Yeah.

Gabe: About the heart attack. That wasn’t like hell, yeah, he was. You’re a tough guy. But then I sounds some of the stuff about suicidality, dip, and like, I don’t know, maybe I don’t like this. And let’s consider exactly, you know, you don’t have to agree with me immediately. Let’s consider the whys of that. Why do we feel that way? And I think that will allow us to move forward. Look, feeling is funny. We need it. We like it. If it’s not for you, don’t listen to it. Frank’s not for everybody.

Frank: It’s a way of breaking down barricades and having a meeting of the minds. Because a laugh is something where your thinkers required to comply with. You have to be in the same place at the same time. You know, picturing the same thing. I tell my comedy students, depict the picture, it’s gotta be very color. So they can be there with you. Right there with you.

Gabe: Well, that is awesome. You are awesome.

Frank: Well , thank you very much.

Lisa: Yeah, we are actually enjoyed it. Where can public find you?

Frank: TheMentalHealthComedian.com is my Web area. My phone number’s there and sometime in the next, I’m guessing the coming week, there will be an audio book version of a record that Gabe and I are in.

Gabe: Yeah, I actually I fantasize I’m in magnitude two and you’re in work one. I didn’t make the cut, but Guts, Grit& The Grind, you can find it on Amazon. It’s a accumulation of tales from boys about their mental health concerns, mental illnesses and exactly the whole concept, we’ve got to give a shout out to Dr. Sally, was that men only don’t talk about their mental health issues fairly and there’s getting to be more subjects. But I like to joke that I got into this business because it was chiefly women.

Frank: Yes. And Sarah Gaer, whose notion it was and who learns QPR to first responders, mainly subjects. She went to the bookstore to find a diary on men’s mental health, couldn’t find one. Went on Amazon, couldn’t were identified. So she

Gabe: Now we go.

Frank: She applied it together. Yes. And if you go to my website, sometime in the next week or so, they’ll be a, put your email in, and you get a free facsimile of the audio volume that I voiced.

Gabe: Nice. Nice. If you want to hear Frank’s voice even more, you know what to do. That would be awesome, Frank. It’s always fun.

Lisa: Oh, expressed appreciation for again so much.

Frank: Oh, my pleasure. Bye-bye guys, you all be good.

Lisa: All claim, expressed appreciation for, bye-bye.

Gabe: Uh-huh, bye-bye. Lisa, what do you think? You didn’t say a whole lot. I imply, “its probably” hard-bitten with Gabe and Frank on the line.

Lisa: Well, I thought he heightened some interesting points. I visualized his humor was pretty funny, that was good. If I were at a powwow, I’d want to go see that.

Gabe: Well, you know that that’s interesting because when you started off talking, I thought you were gonna say this sucks. I don’t think we should joke about mental illness. But then you ended with if we were at a powwow, I’d want to go see it. It sounds like you’re conflicted, like you’re not sure.

Lisa: No.

Gabe: Whether this is okay or not.

Lisa: Well, I would say that the broader question of is comedy about bad things okay or not has a lot of gray in it. I think that humor and laughter is a unmistakable method to deal with dark things. I use it myself. Nearly everyone I know uses it. I think this is a universal part of the human condition. We all employment feeling to get through dark ages or to address dark topics. So, if this is something that you’re painful with, once he is laughing at his own mental illness, that indicates to the audience that it’s okay to chuckle. He’s comfortable with it. So we’re comfy with it.

Gabe: Lisa, you and I have been friends for forever, and I know that you like gallows humor. I is a well-known fact that you like light humor.

Lisa: I do, I truly do.

Gabe: We both like it. But I noticed that when Frank was telling some of the darker jokes and I symbolize, he precisely popped out of nowhere. You glanced disagreeable. I felt embarrassing.

Lisa: I don’t know that I’m so much awkward, as time astonished and you’re not sure how to react. You know, like, what do I do? What do I say? What happened next? And, today, whoa, he merely departed straight-out for it. There’s no lead up , no buildup. I repute maybe that’s what it was. It was just it’s so shocking to be right in front of your face so fast.

Gabe: But let’s say that I did that. Let’s “re saying you” and I were we’re sitting in my front room, it’s 3:00 in the morning and I just I sounds that joke. Would you know what to say then?

Lisa: Well, it’s different.

Gabe: Would you have laughed?

Lisa: Yeah, but it’s different when you’re with person you literally know. I’ve met this gentleman for the first time just now.

Gabe: But why? I think that’s an interesting theory, because kind of what you’re describing is that gallows humor is okay among close friends, privately, but publicly,

Lisa: Well.

Gabe: Maybe it’s not OK? I’m just curious of the reasons why?

Lisa: Well.

Gabe: Listen, I did the same thing. I tittered uncomfortably. Everybody just heard it.

Lisa: I didn’t think about that as whether or not it was one of those things where it’s more for close friends and family or. But that’s not really a practical way to go about things precisely because most of my friends and family exactly aren’t that funny. So if I want to hear said laughter, I’m gonna have to turn to some sort of mass media.

Gabe: But you’re alone.

Lisa: Oh, okay.

Gabe: You’re doing that mass media alone.

Lisa: Well, what if I were in the audience?

Gabe: There’s no yield. There’s no makes. There’s no Psych Central hovering. There’s no, there’s no recording.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: However, you acted, is being recorded right now.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: On enters that you don’t authority. Did that impact the nature that you responded?

Lisa: Absolutely.

Gabe: Why?

Lisa: And I think it’s probably, I’m assuming it impacts the style that his audience responds as well. Because you’re looking for society to tell you that this is OK or this is not OK. You’re trying to take your cue from other parties as to, because you don’t know how to react. It’s so unique and it’s so astounding that you’re just not sure what to do.

Gabe: Isn’t this what comes us in trouble, though? Listen to what you just said. You’re looking around to take your cues from civilization to decide how you should react. Now, let’s positioned that in an resemblance for people living with mental illness, perhaps the guy that you meet with bipolar disorder, you don’t have a problem with it until all of your friends and family say, whoa hoo hoo hoo hoo. You should

Lisa: Oh.

Gabe: Not time him. He’s mentally ill. So you look around to civilization to decide how to react. And suddenly the person with bipolar disorder can’t have friends or get a job or have a shot because everybody is sharing in the same nucleus of misinformation. You had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know you find funny. I had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know that I received funny. And we opted to skip it because we weren’t sure how our listeners would react.

Lisa: Well,

Gabe: Wow. We’re breaking down walls.

Lisa: Well, OK, but that’s not exactly a fair similarity, since we are do have a vested interest in how our listeners act. It’s not like we were at a slapstick organization with a assortment of populations and who cares what they think of us. We care very much about what the person or persons listening are thinking. So I don’t think that’s exactly a fair resemblance. So let’s use that resemblance, though, where. Yeah, that’s a good point. If it was just about a knot of strangers or about the larger society and not people who, you are aware, control the purse strings, we would in fact be saying, yeah. You’re right. That is part of the culture of discrimination. I had not thought of it that way. Good point.

Gabe: Obviously, we’ve talked about a lot. I like this type of humor because if it wasn’t for this type of feeling, I don’t know that how I would have gotten through. And I do hug humor is healthy. I do is of the view that sometimes joking about it breaks down barriers. It’s like the analogy that I told about my father. There are people who are scared to hear this story. I’m sure that some of them are listening right now. But it’s my dad. And we talk to each other that space. He would say the same thing to me if I was in that situation. And we’d laugh together and we’d cry together and we’d be a family together. And maybe you shouldn’t walk up to a stranger and threaten to beat them up. I kind of agree with that. But.

Lisa: Well, of course, you agree with that. Everything is in context.

Gabe: And there. There is my large-hearted stage, I think that sometimes people miss the context of some of Frank’s jokes or some of the jokes that I tell as a speaker. Where “theyre saying”, you are aware, that’s not something that you are able to joke about. But the context is education. The situation is creating it out of the shadows and becoming it something that we can point at, laugh at, discuss and will not be afraid of. If we’re paying attention to the context, I guess a guy

Lisa: Well, but.

Gabe: Like Frank is perfectly fine. If we pay attention to the words, m aybe Frank has gone too far. I am working on the all discussion is good discussion bandwagon.

Lisa: Ok, but that same thing could be said about any controversial humorist or any controversial comedy subject. It’s all about the context. We would never have any of this assessment of someone’s cloth ever if they knew for sure the people in the audience would be okay with it. You know, it’s all about deciding if this particular group of people is cozy with this humor or not. And I can see I know what it is you’re going to say. You’re going to say that if they’re not pleasant with it, we need to obligate them cozy with it. And one of the ways we do that is exposure.

Gabe: I think that is a good point, but I wasn’t going to say that at all. What I was going to say is that beings have a right to discuss their lives and their pain and their mental illness in any way they demand. And while you may not agree with Frank or even find Frank funny or like Frank or I don’t know why I’m shitting all over Frank, all of a sudden. We desire him. We had him on our appearance. But I consider the mixture here is to understand that Frank is describing his pilgrimage in the way that he is comfortable with. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen. What I worry about is when people say, listen, you have a mental illness, but you can only talk about your mental illness this room. You is impossible to describe your experience in this manner. You is impossible to describe your damage squandering these paroles. I think that really appoints a system where people can’t characterize their own recovery and their own existence. And people can’t be who they want. Yeah, I’m well aware of contentious jesters that that say all kinds of horrific things, but they’re saying them about other parties. They’re not saying them about their souls.

Lisa: Well, yeah. That’s why.

Gabe: One of the things that I love about Frank is that Frank discusses his life. And yeah, some people don’t like the nature that he does it. But I gotta tell you, I’ve been in his audience. The majority of the people love it. It just seems like the people who don’t like it are really loud.

Lisa: Well, you would prefer they just weren’t there at all. Everyone has various kinds of the inalienable title to define their own narrative, to discuss their own thing the style they want to, to articulate it into the words they choose. And I want to just go with that. I want to really be done there and just stop. Full stop. Done. But then I start conceiving well, but, how far does that go? I get that you have mental illness and therefore you kind of have the permission slip to talk about this. But there is a non-zero point where I would say, OK, stop it.

Gabe: Well, but I think that what you’re discussing is that you don’t want Frank to tell you what to do with your life. And that’s the great thing about Frank King. His comedy is very personal. He merely talked about his experiences, “peoples lives”. I’ve never seen Frank say I am a person living with depression. And here’s what every single person with dimple needs to do. I don’t know what the joke at the end of that would be, but yeah, yeah, I’d reveal right up and I’d be like, buster, you’re not the elected spokesman for people with recession.

Lisa: But that’s why people would critique it, because there’s a finite number of spokespeople. There are so few spokespeople out there representing us that when one of them says the following thing, that is extra damage. It’s not like there’s a thousand of these people out there. There’s only a handful. So I judge many people feel like you need to tightly assure that narrative. If they feel that narrative is incorrect or injury and other parties see that. And he has that cover of, hey, he’s mentally ill. You can’t praise the space he speaks of it, because, after all, it’s his own experience. But they feel that that is damaging to the overall flow. So I don’t know where to go with that.

Gabe: Well, but people can critique it and say that isn’t their experience, but it is, in fact, Frank’s.

Lisa: OK.

Gabe: I can tell you that being a mental health speaker, I’m not a mental health comedian. I’m a mental health speaker and I don’t even have the mental health speaker dot com. So I don’t know.

Lisa: Well, that was a clear oversight.

Gabe: Yeah, I don’t know where that needles me. But I can tell you, being a mental health speaker, I adoration it when people tell me I’m wrong. I desire it when I get emails where people tell me that I missed the mark. I adore it when people are discussing the things that I say. Being a podcaster or I feel the same way. Respectful emails where people are like, Gabe, I listened to your totality podcast. I listened to your point of view and you are completely wrong. Mental health issues Month is in fact, incredible. You shouldn’t have insulted in any way. It is merely goodness. I listened to everything that you say. I altogether disagree with you. You, sir, are wrong. That is my favorite email ever. They listened to what I said. They considered everything that I said and they are now putting out in the world that Gabe Howard is wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. We is expected to be very, very clear. I time want to take a moment. Frank is not do any of these things. We’re just expend him as a

Lisa: Well, yeah, because he’s the one who’s here right now.

Gabe: Yeah, he was just dumb enough to come on the establish. I speculation he’s rethinking that now that he’s listening to it.

Lisa: Yeah, we’re gonna have trouble getting clients after this.

Gabe: But severely, these discussions are strong. Right, Lisa, I understand what you’re saying.

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: You don’t want to be on the Gabe train because then it’s all one mode or all another.

Lisa: Because where’s the line?

Gabe: I’m telling you, there isn’t a line. It would be nice if we lived in a life where this is the stuff that was appropriate. And this is the stuff that was inappropriate. That world does not exist. I feel very strongly that the most wonderful we can do is allow for respectful dialog and respectful disagreement. I think that mental health advocacy would taking forward at an extraordinarily rapid charge if all the people who differed could get on board, find the stuff we have in common and push that forward. Because, listen, we’re never going to agree. The practice that a middle aged white guy suffers bipolar disorder is j ust different than a 70 year old woman who’s been living with bipolar disorder, which is different than 20 year olds who are able being diagnosed, that differs from parties below the poverty line, above the poverty line.

Lisa: Yeah, we get it. It’s all different. Everyone’s different, yes.

Gabe: I precisely I haven’t even scratched the surface of inconsistencies hitherto. I know that you think that I’m just going on and on and on and on and on. But you know as well as I do that I haven’t even extended 1 per cent of all of the differences with beings bipolar disorder.

Lisa: Well, clearly not. Because all of the people with bipolar disorder represent all of the accessible differences in the population.

Gabe: Exactly. This applies to more than merely mental health.

Lisa: Yeah, It’s a universally applicable discussion.

Gabe: And I certainly wanted to remind my listeners that, you know, so often people living with mental illness feel that the bar is different for us. And it is.

Lisa: Yeah, it is.

Gabe: The saloon is different for us. But, you are aware, sometimes the bar is exactly the same. It’s exactly the same as everybody else. People are trying to decide the best way to discuss all kinds of controversial topics, creepy topics, misunderstood topics. And they’re all running into the same problems that people who are advocating on behalf of people living with mental illness are running into. It is one of the things that fix us. It’s difficult to know how to get the word out there, because as sure as I’m sitting here, you’re going to tread on somebody’s toes.

Lisa: Yeah. Now, here. Gabe.

Gabe: Lisa, did you have fun?

Lisa: Yes. A real treat to have Frank with us today.

Gabe: It was genuinely, really awesome. Now, Lisa, you have seven days to come up with a brand-new nature to start the show. If you say hi, I am Lisa, I.

Lisa: It’s hard. I need help here, beings, help me, help me. Give me some advice.

Gabe: Truly? You want people to e-mail show @PsychCentral. com to tell an experienced podcaster how to start her own prove?

Lisa: Yes, I be considered that parties should definitely e-mail show @PsychCentral. com to let us know what it is I should be saying.

Gabe: You discover the maid; I’m not going to argue with her. Listen up, everybody. Here’s what I was essential to do. If you adore the present, be given by us as countless hotshots as humanly possible. Use your words and write about how much you loved us. Oaths really, really help. And share us on social media. Use your words there too. Really this whole thing comes down to using positive statements to share us and subscribe and to move us far-famed. Like, wouldn’t it be cool only if it is as acclaimed as Frank King,

Lisa: Oh.

Gabe: at mental health comedian speck com?

Lisa: I believe that’s TheMentalHealthComedian.com, Gabe. He’s just not a mental health comedian. He is the mental health comedian.

Gabe: Once again, expressed appreciation for, Frank. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And we will see you next Tuesday.

Lisa: Bye. See you then.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, tour PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/ NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person? Not Crazy proceeds well. Have us record an incident live at your next happening. E-mail show @psychcentral. com for details.

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